Oct 23, 2023·edited Oct 23, 2023Liked by Yoshi Matsumoto
The title is provocative. The content uncomfortable. Yet there is truth here.
“If Jeffrey can be forgiven then we all can be. If Jeffrey made it to Heaven then what Saint Paul said was true and there’s nothing, absolutely nothing, that can ever separate us from the love of God.”
Only God truly knows where Dahmer ended up. But to discuss his effort a repentance is a struggle.
This is one of those strange conversations you have at a pub after midnight. But you walk away thankful to have used your brain.
Paul said he was the chief of sinners, and he had more than a few murders on his record. But, really, isn't the unpardonable sin the final rejection of the free offer of grace?
I am thankful Jesus holds my future, and He is a righteous judge.
Ted Bundy also became a Christian and received forgiveness and eternal life. Dahmer was a Protestant and is shut out from formal sainthood. But I chuckled at this thought - what about if people started praying to him Catholic Saint style and miracles happened as proof he was in heaven with God. No purgatory in Protestant land so he got the beatific vision immediately which I understand in Catholicism is reserved only for a special few, the rest of us have to go to the dry cleaners first.
"Dahmer was a Protestant and is shut out from formal sainthood."
True in theory, although until recently that was also the case for eastern and oriental orthodox Christians, so, in the future, perhaps Catholics will formally recognize protestant saints too.
Well, that actually is a testable hypothesis -- someone could pray to Dahmer and see what happens. I'm not going to do it myself, but it kind of reminds me of the whole Santa Muerte phenomenon. The leadership has lost control over what the parishioners get up to on their own time; the common people just want results in whatever weird way they can get them.
Humans are too whacky and inconsistent to figure out the unknowable judgments and timing of the Creator. (Parable of the laborers who came at the last hour and got the same pay as those who worked all day.)
A lovely piece -- aesthetics conditions moral sensibility. The insight is impossible to dismiss when you’re convinced, as I am, that the great majority call ‘Truth’ only that which moves them deeply and emotionally. Anyway, it offended my wife so you know the barb was felt. 😁
I have to believe that God is a lot more merciful than we generally are, or else Heaven is going to be pretty scarcely populated and this whole 'Evil' thing in general will have turned out to be a bad idea all together.
This was perhaps the best piece of yours I've read. Your writing about how Satan is not a liar but a convincer is a very close second. This was incredible.
I just finished my Bible Study today; John 5: Jesus Heals the Sick Man by the pool of Bethesda.
I'm a new paid subscriber. Thank you for your wonderful writing and your dedication.
I love this. I once mentioned to someone that the possibility of Hitler being in Heaven was the entire point of the whole thing, and they really got quite cross with me.
I would even argue that anyone who does the things Jeffrey D got up to couldn't possibly be in their right mind (secular version) / is quite clearly being used by the real forces of evil which are much bigger and scarier than any human, even one with a barbell and a bath of acid (Catholic version).
The conversion and redemption of these people gives glory to God. It's a seemingly impossible thing but He can do it. We should want that, not only for their benefit but to give glory to Him. Isn't that the meaning of charity?
Good article, got a few tears from me. Reminds me of John Newton, the writer of "Amazing Grace". Pastors like to talk about him being a slave ship operator, but that's the tip of the iceberg. Murderer, rapist, for years and years. Heinous. But he was saved and gave us one of the greatest hymns of all time. Thanks for sharing, Yoshi.
Yes, John Newton. I think people stop short of the murder and rape in those stories for the same reasons they would with Dahmer, makes his salvation almost scandalous to believe. Yet the cross is scandalous.
There was a certain desert monk named Apollo of Scetis who cut open a pregnant woman just because he was curious to see how the baby lay inside the woman, murdering her and the child in the process. He then went to the desert and spent the rest of his life in prayer, and was forgiven. The desert monks would live in cells, just like prisoners do. Isolating themselves for years. Perhaps Jeffery, though his isolation was compelled rather than voluntary, underwent a similar purification process. Prisons are sometimes called "penitentiaries" after all. If Christ's death cannot cover Jeffery's sins, then He is not truly the all powerful savior of the world. And we're all damned.
I think the bigger influence on how the public sees it is that in Jeffrey's case he committed the murders with his bare hands. I wouldn't be surprised if Hitler, or Stalin, or any of the others had committed murders with their bare hands at some point, but they were mostly connected to their murders through at least one degree of separation. Telling someone else to do their dirty work for them. I remember hearing or reading that Hitler wasn't actually attributed to the killing of one person. Stalin was something similar too, I think.
I do agree with the bigger message that God forgives all. Didn't Jesus associate with thieves and prostitutes?
The title is provocative. The content uncomfortable. Yet there is truth here.
“If Jeffrey can be forgiven then we all can be. If Jeffrey made it to Heaven then what Saint Paul said was true and there’s nothing, absolutely nothing, that can ever separate us from the love of God.”
Only God truly knows where Dahmer ended up. But to discuss his effort a repentance is a struggle.
This is one of those strange conversations you have at a pub after midnight. But you walk away thankful to have used your brain.
Thank you.
"God, be merciful to me, the sinner."
Paul said he was the chief of sinners, and he had more than a few murders on his record. But, really, isn't the unpardonable sin the final rejection of the free offer of grace?
I am thankful Jesus holds my future, and He is a righteous judge.
Ted Bundy also became a Christian and received forgiveness and eternal life. Dahmer was a Protestant and is shut out from formal sainthood. But I chuckled at this thought - what about if people started praying to him Catholic Saint style and miracles happened as proof he was in heaven with God. No purgatory in Protestant land so he got the beatific vision immediately which I understand in Catholicism is reserved only for a special few, the rest of us have to go to the dry cleaners first.
"Dahmer was a Protestant and is shut out from formal sainthood."
True in theory, although until recently that was also the case for eastern and oriental orthodox Christians, so, in the future, perhaps Catholics will formally recognize protestant saints too.
Well, that actually is a testable hypothesis -- someone could pray to Dahmer and see what happens. I'm not going to do it myself, but it kind of reminds me of the whole Santa Muerte phenomenon. The leadership has lost control over what the parishioners get up to on their own time; the common people just want results in whatever weird way they can get them.
Hard lesson here. 👍🏽
Humans are too whacky and inconsistent to figure out the unknowable judgments and timing of the Creator. (Parable of the laborers who came at the last hour and got the same pay as those who worked all day.)
A lovely piece -- aesthetics conditions moral sensibility. The insight is impossible to dismiss when you’re convinced, as I am, that the great majority call ‘Truth’ only that which moves them deeply and emotionally. Anyway, it offended my wife so you know the barb was felt. 😁
I hope your wife was not too offended!
Great. I liked it a lot.
I have to believe that God is a lot more merciful than we generally are, or else Heaven is going to be pretty scarcely populated and this whole 'Evil' thing in general will have turned out to be a bad idea all together.
This was perhaps the best piece of yours I've read. Your writing about how Satan is not a liar but a convincer is a very close second. This was incredible.
I just finished my Bible Study today; John 5: Jesus Heals the Sick Man by the pool of Bethesda.
I'm a new paid subscriber. Thank you for your wonderful writing and your dedication.
I love this. I once mentioned to someone that the possibility of Hitler being in Heaven was the entire point of the whole thing, and they really got quite cross with me.
I would even argue that anyone who does the things Jeffrey D got up to couldn't possibly be in their right mind (secular version) / is quite clearly being used by the real forces of evil which are much bigger and scarier than any human, even one with a barbell and a bath of acid (Catholic version).
The conversion and redemption of these people gives glory to God. It's a seemingly impossible thing but He can do it. We should want that, not only for their benefit but to give glory to Him. Isn't that the meaning of charity?
This may be your best yet. Maybe. But it certainly ranks right up there in the top three to five. And I almost didn't even read it. Thank you.
Thank you.
Good article, got a few tears from me. Reminds me of John Newton, the writer of "Amazing Grace". Pastors like to talk about him being a slave ship operator, but that's the tip of the iceberg. Murderer, rapist, for years and years. Heinous. But he was saved and gave us one of the greatest hymns of all time. Thanks for sharing, Yoshi.
Yes, John Newton. I think people stop short of the murder and rape in those stories for the same reasons they would with Dahmer, makes his salvation almost scandalous to believe. Yet the cross is scandalous.
There was a certain desert monk named Apollo of Scetis who cut open a pregnant woman just because he was curious to see how the baby lay inside the woman, murdering her and the child in the process. He then went to the desert and spent the rest of his life in prayer, and was forgiven. The desert monks would live in cells, just like prisoners do. Isolating themselves for years. Perhaps Jeffery, though his isolation was compelled rather than voluntary, underwent a similar purification process. Prisons are sometimes called "penitentiaries" after all. If Christ's death cannot cover Jeffery's sins, then He is not truly the all powerful savior of the world. And we're all damned.
Heavy. Bloody hell.
But thank you for these daring words. And thank God for your talented writing.
God forgive us.
I think the bigger influence on how the public sees it is that in Jeffrey's case he committed the murders with his bare hands. I wouldn't be surprised if Hitler, or Stalin, or any of the others had committed murders with their bare hands at some point, but they were mostly connected to their murders through at least one degree of separation. Telling someone else to do their dirty work for them. I remember hearing or reading that Hitler wasn't actually attributed to the killing of one person. Stalin was something similar too, I think.
I do agree with the bigger message that God forgives all. Didn't Jesus associate with thieves and prostitutes?