I think it is tempting to believe that Jesus was crucified because people didn't know who he was. But I think people probably did it, or would have done it, BECAUSE they knew he was God, and believed God deserved to die.
It is rare to see someone else express this, though. Hats off :)
Exquisite, Uncomfortable, unquestionable Provoking, puts me in mind of the multitude of author's of the “Bible’ trying to figure it all out. To my complicated mind its much simpler and less complicated, The Creator had grown bored with perfection albeit a extendable perfection and surmised that if he rendered his Spirit into infinite mini-creations, pure in their perfection however lacking the fulness of The Perfect “Perfection” (humans call GOD), and create a most intimate and challenging environment that required innovation, creativity and various, deep aspects of perfection, individual perfections could/would evolve and a Devine gestalt would evolve. We are that ‘plan’, we are godlets each and every one of us, let all this conflict/confusion/blame go, and be one with The Plan. Unfortunately each one must discover "The Mission, if you choose to accept it", and until we do the floggings will continue until the moral improves.…...
Simply the finest exposition on Job I've ever read, and I've read a few. I wish my late father, an attorney, had been able to read this before he passed. Some of his last words questioned why a just God would allow pain in the world as he asserted he'd never asked to be here. I've found comfort in the belief that we all agree to be born and to do our best with the cards we've been dealt. May my life always be a testimony for the defense.
My goodness, I am going to be thinking this over for awhile. Brilliant and from an angle I would never have seen coming, as ever. Thank you Mr. Matsumoto. Again and again you challenge me. Much appreciated.
For years, I've had God exhorting me over the difficulty of being God, but I'd never actually made the connection to Job before; I caught the "How dare you, I'm God" aspect of Job, but not the "this is hard" angle. Thank you for that.
I think understanding this can make or break a theology--the story is oh so very different, practically nonsensical, if God can just snap His fingers and create. But God as portrayed in the Bible has to work for it, and once you realize that, you can stop worrying about theodicy and start maybe trying to help out where you can.
I had a vision long ago of Christ hanging on the cross looking at me and saying, "If you have any better ideas, please let me know!" You make me realize this is in many ways the other side of the same coin as Job. What an excellent post--thank you!
Have you read the work of Michael S Heiser? He discussed extensively the whole "other gods" in the Bible position.
I think your arguments are fascinating, but troublesome for mainstream Christianity. It puts God as a being who is just figuring it out as he goes, just like us. That would bring incredible uncomfortableness to most Christians.
I've been trying my best to stare into the tangle of this. Asking, deeply, the question "What does it mean to be Good?" Does that mean "Be nothing like Satan, thus giving good evidence that this is possible?" Is that what it means to be "Good Evidence?"
Or does being "Good Evidence" also mean being an "Unbiased Juror?" If I am to be the Evidence and cast my impartial vote on the Goodness or Badness of Being, would I not better fill this role by "seeing it all?"
If I can be Good only by shielding myself from Bad, am I giving an honest account and doing my due diligence? Would I not be "Better Evidence" if I took on as much evil as I could handle while remaining Good? But striving to be Good Evidence in this way opens me up to the very real possibility of changing my vote. Must I seriously open myself up to being persuaded by the Prosecution in order to be a truly Good Juror?
I'd rather be Direct Evidence than Circumstancial Evidence.
But then I pop out of this line of thinking when I remember that Jesus became the Direct Evidence to free us from the weight of needing to be that, while still inviting us to be as potent Corroborative Evidence as we can be.
Thanks for that reply and fully concur. Would you agree that without free will Love is meaningless? It is difficult to explain as i tried recently to a young man searching for life's meaning...
Without choice all is compelled, preordained, and yes ultimately meaningless.
There’s something about the idea of joy being earned as well.
The satisfaction is different. It’s not cheap. It’s earned. When we choose Jesus, we choose discomfort and struggle, but it’s also choosing to be grateful, and aiming for joy. It has purpose not just for us but for those around us.
I think it is tempting to believe that Jesus was crucified because people didn't know who he was. But I think people probably did it, or would have done it, BECAUSE they knew he was God, and believed God deserved to die.
It is rare to see someone else express this, though. Hats off :)
Exquisite, Uncomfortable, unquestionable Provoking, puts me in mind of the multitude of author's of the “Bible’ trying to figure it all out. To my complicated mind its much simpler and less complicated, The Creator had grown bored with perfection albeit a extendable perfection and surmised that if he rendered his Spirit into infinite mini-creations, pure in their perfection however lacking the fulness of The Perfect “Perfection” (humans call GOD), and create a most intimate and challenging environment that required innovation, creativity and various, deep aspects of perfection, individual perfections could/would evolve and a Devine gestalt would evolve. We are that ‘plan’, we are godlets each and every one of us, let all this conflict/confusion/blame go, and be one with The Plan. Unfortunately each one must discover "The Mission, if you choose to accept it", and until we do the floggings will continue until the moral improves.…...
Simply the finest exposition on Job I've ever read, and I've read a few. I wish my late father, an attorney, had been able to read this before he passed. Some of his last words questioned why a just God would allow pain in the world as he asserted he'd never asked to be here. I've found comfort in the belief that we all agree to be born and to do our best with the cards we've been dealt. May my life always be a testimony for the defense.
My goodness, I am going to be thinking this over for awhile. Brilliant and from an angle I would never have seen coming, as ever. Thank you Mr. Matsumoto. Again and again you challenge me. Much appreciated.
For years, I've had God exhorting me over the difficulty of being God, but I'd never actually made the connection to Job before; I caught the "How dare you, I'm God" aspect of Job, but not the "this is hard" angle. Thank you for that.
I think understanding this can make or break a theology--the story is oh so very different, practically nonsensical, if God can just snap His fingers and create. But God as portrayed in the Bible has to work for it, and once you realize that, you can stop worrying about theodicy and start maybe trying to help out where you can.
I had a vision long ago of Christ hanging on the cross looking at me and saying, "If you have any better ideas, please let me know!" You make me realize this is in many ways the other side of the same coin as Job. What an excellent post--thank you!
You’re welcome. That vision you described is very powerful!
Have you read the work of Michael S Heiser? He discussed extensively the whole "other gods" in the Bible position.
I think your arguments are fascinating, but troublesome for mainstream Christianity. It puts God as a being who is just figuring it out as he goes, just like us. That would bring incredible uncomfortableness to most Christians.
I’m not 100% sure he’s just “figuring it out s as he goes” but I do think God is more human than we’re comfortable with.
Can't help but sympathize with the Mormon position of a "forward Fall," a necessary prerequisite - at least a little bit.
This really gives a lot more weight to the idea of "giving testimony."
We're both evidence and eye witnesses.
But you know what they say about eye witnesses...
I've been trying my best to stare into the tangle of this. Asking, deeply, the question "What does it mean to be Good?" Does that mean "Be nothing like Satan, thus giving good evidence that this is possible?" Is that what it means to be "Good Evidence?"
Or does being "Good Evidence" also mean being an "Unbiased Juror?" If I am to be the Evidence and cast my impartial vote on the Goodness or Badness of Being, would I not better fill this role by "seeing it all?"
If I can be Good only by shielding myself from Bad, am I giving an honest account and doing my due diligence? Would I not be "Better Evidence" if I took on as much evil as I could handle while remaining Good? But striving to be Good Evidence in this way opens me up to the very real possibility of changing my vote. Must I seriously open myself up to being persuaded by the Prosecution in order to be a truly Good Juror?
I'd rather be Direct Evidence than Circumstancial Evidence.
But then I pop out of this line of thinking when I remember that Jesus became the Direct Evidence to free us from the weight of needing to be that, while still inviting us to be as potent Corroborative Evidence as we can be.
Carl Jung, Marie Louise von Franz, Joseph Campbell, Nietzsche are a few who have all addressed this exact thing.
Yes, but not on Substack, with all the comments and everything.
Tell me you’ve seen The Tree of Life
Entertaining. Fun out of the box thinking. And agree there are many “gods”, but One God.
The Creator, Alpha and Omega.
He made All, and He wants us to choose.
You slid past free will, which is the only place I’d challenge.
It’s all about free will.
Without the choice, there is no meaning, and without meaning why write a book for an NPC that couldn’t appreciate the depth of the story?
I won’t claim to have a better exposition of the finer details, but Eden probably needs decent caretakers, lest it be left to the weeds.
Thanks for that reply and fully concur. Would you agree that without free will Love is meaningless? It is difficult to explain as i tried recently to a young man searching for life's meaning...
Without choice all is compelled, preordained, and yes ultimately meaningless.
There’s something about the idea of joy being earned as well.
The satisfaction is different. It’s not cheap. It’s earned. When we choose Jesus, we choose discomfort and struggle, but it’s also choosing to be grateful, and aiming for joy. It has purpose not just for us but for those around us.
My humble two cents.